Forum Replies Created
Erin,
Ha ha, typing at same time. Yes, Dr. Dodds.
In 2007 Chance nearly died from bone marrow failure. It was Dr. Dodds who helped me save him, free of charge, over the whole year and into the second. In his memory I have built this website to help other owners whose dogs are extremely ill, you see his name at the top right and you see his pictures in many place on the site. She is my guardian angel and gave me back three years of time with Chance I almost lost.
Dr. Dodds, to this day, still assists many of the owners who come to our site and we consult with her on a regular basis for help.
my very best
patrice
We have plenty of resources on all sorts of things that you are wondering about. Look just above the forum for Second Chance Facts and Resources rotating references. We have a Vaccine Resources and a Parasite Resources.
Dr. Dodds addresses these topics with accuracy and keeps compromised immune systems in mind. Second Chance recognizes Dr. Dodds years of research on canine health topics and always turns to her information for our Gold Standard advice to owners.
Also at the top of this forum see the topic Dr. Dodds NEW 2016 Minimal Vaccine Schedule in vivid blue. All owners whose dogs are being treated should follow this schedule for life. Print this and carry it with you, especially when visiting a new vet. Do not get talked into unnecessary or only partially effective vaccines until you review all her information, not only here, but also on her blog.
my best patrice
Hi Nicole,
The important values to watch are the reticulocytes.
Dec 29 2016:
% Reticulocyte 0.7
Reticulocyte 37.1
Jan 10 2017
% Reticulocyte 1.4
Reticulocyte 65.8
Reticulocytes are the immature “new” cells that the bone marrow makes in response to the body cells “asking” for more oxygen. Anemia is really that, a shortage of O2 to the body cells followed by a complex series of events that should happen when the body sends out that SOS.
In our daily lives, we destroy old worn out blood cells and replace them on a daily basis. So reticulocytes are always in small quantities in our blood. They look a bit different than mature red blood cells, with a bluish “reticular” material inside the cells. They are also a bit larger in their juvenile state. In fact, to an automated analyzer they can almost appear to look the same as white blood cells. The vet must take this into account when viewing the CBC results.
So in a healthy human or dog, as we destroy and replace our old RBC, we maintain a very specific value for reticulocytes for our everyday needs. Those values are 60,000 absolute reticulocytes or approximately 1% if the total blood elements, give or take a bit either way. Any human or dog that has anemia and has a value less than these values has bone marrow that is not responding properly. The greater the anemia (measured by a value lower than 38% hematocrit or PCV and a lower than normal amount of hemoglobin inside the RBC), the greater the response must be by the bone marrow to be considered regenerative.
So compare a hematocrit of 37% and hemoglobin of 135 in Dec with a hematocrit of 35% and hemoglobin of 126 Jan 10, what do you see that is different? Yes, the hematocrit and hemoglobin are lower. That means that the RBC have slightly less capability of carrying the right amount of O2 to the body cells, but not by much.
Now compare the two values of reticulocytes, what do you see?
Dec 29 2016:
% Reticulocyte 0.7
Reticulocyte 37.1
Jan 10 2017
% Reticulocyte 1.4
Reticulocyte 65.8
Yes, you have seen that in Dec the bone marrow was not responding well to the need for O2 and the reticulocyte values are low, less than 60,000 and 1%. Those two values should have been higher. 37% is just a very tiny anemia, not much. But there still should have been a sufficient response to return the body to normal.
In Jan we see that the hematocrit is 35%, and the hemoglobin has dropped a bit. And bingo, you see that the bone marrow has responded and now the value is 65,800 and 1.4%. For mild anemia this is a very moderate response.
What would be important to watch is if this regenerative response continues at the next CBC. Remember that once the hematocrit reaches around 37 – 38% the body accepts that as normal and it will go back to only producing about 60,000, 1% reticuloyctes to replace old RBC. So don’t expect a massive response at this point, considering how small the anemia is.
One thing of importance to factor in is that the WBC seem to have risen from one test to the next and the number of red blood cells have dropped from 5.3 million to 4.7 million.
Dec
WBC 21.5
RBC 5.3
Jan
WBC 22.3
RBC 4.7
I think, (though your vet should also confirm), that this is an errant value and that these extra white blood cells are actually those big reticulocytes mimicking WBC. They can determine if this is true by running something called a differential, that details the WBC in more detail, in that they can usually figure out if the WBC are truly high or just reticulocytes.
Reticulocytes are in the blood a short time, only 3-5 days, before they drop the reticulated RNA, and mature into true RBC. So that test was 2 days ago and by the next time you do another CBC you will see different values, make sense?
The platelets are normal, which is always a good sign.
So we may want to begin to think about looking for something called anemia of chronic disease if these WBC values continue to remain highish, despite being on antibiotics. They would be a sign of something called an inflammatory condition, not really related to anemia, but perhaps a non responsive infection or a body organ that is “complaining” about the prednisone, first to come to mind is the pancreas and second is the liver.
Right now there is no danger, the anemia is so mild that it’s hardly worth the worry. I would like to see the PCV get up to 38% at least, but many dogs never get past 37% after these conditions, so not to worry. Are the gums nice and pink, is she acting like she feels better? Busy with the household, normal pottying, eating good? Those are the kinds of signs I look for and you are an expert at your own dog, the vet can’t come close to your ability to evaluate your dog!
Remember the body is always in a state of change, no single value really remains the same from day to day or even hour to hour, even in a healthy body. When we grab a CBC, it is a tiny momentary snap shot that is dependent on many things like when the last meal was, how hydrated your dog was, was your dog stressed out by the clinic, did the tech make some critical mistakes doing the blood draw and damage the sample, did the sample sit out too long and the blood changed for the worse? I wish I could say that every vet clinic has been careful about these things, but sadly that is not true.
So having a few CBC to compare will give a better idea of what is really happening. If you have questions, please ask,
my best, patrice
Vicki
I am sorry to read this about Grace. This has to be very worrisome to you since you have been through this once already.
It is a wonderful thing that she survived the first time and you have had so much extra time together. I know Grace has appreciated this.
As dogs age they can have more opportunities to become ill, but it isn’t always necessarily a serious illness! It can be simple things to treat that a younger dog might just throw off with a young and healthy immune system. So while it’s easy to jump to the conclusion this is very serious, try to take this one step at a time.
Your vet should look for the obvious and easily treatable problems first. And that means they are going to key in on the fact you haven’t wormed, vaccinated or treated for fleas.
For instance worms such as roundworms, tapeworms, hookworms and whipworms can cause intestinal bleeding which can lead to anemia and also lead to an inability to digest food properly. Heartworm can infect the heart and cause a serious heart conditions. So the two most important tests to do right now are a fecal test and a SNAP 4DX+ test to look for heartworm and tick disease. These conditions are treatable.
A chemistry screen can take a snapshot look at the health of the internal organs like the kidneys and liver, among many other body systems. With the CBC, the vet can get an excellent look at the overall health of Grace.
Once you have this information, you can evaluate more carefully what is making Grace sick and how treatable her current health issues are. Have faith in the exam process to find solutions. Once you have more information we can discuss this together here and figure out what kinds of things you can be doing at home to improve her health!
my best
patrice
Good job Dad! Makes me sleepy too.
Make sure she gets some walking. This helps loosen the congestion. I know, I hate walking around when I am sick, but it is important not to lie around. The muscles will help the lungs clear. Have you ever heard of “cupping?” You could try this on her “back” gently to help this process.
The more broth you can get her to drink the better. The body will become more active in moving fluids around.
Please make sure you see the vet tomorrow. We don’t want this to end up more serious. They can take a sample to see if you need antibiotics.
my best
patrice
AlnCasy,
Oh dear, I hate the sound of this, it must look very sore. Here are some things to look for and a suggestion of how to treat it tonight. If there is a store open, like drug store or walmart, go out and get a cool mist humidifier or vaporizer. Be cautious about the use of strong mentholated steam. I’ve lived through some pretty awful upper respiratory conditions with this in my bedroom.
While Casy may want to lie down, I would encourage sitting, perhaps propped by pillows, so that there is no undo pressure on the lungs and natural drainage is encouraged. Get Casy up to walk around about every hour also.
Lots of water, maybe a bit of honey or sugar,
Call your vet ASAP in the morning, ok? I will be thinking about you tonight,
my best
patrice
Signs of Respiratory Disorders
Discharge from the nose (mucus, pus, or blood, depending on the cause)
Coughing that may be dry or may include mucus or blood
Rapid breathing
Labored or difficult breathing; shortness of breath
Shallow breathing
Signs of pain associated with breathing in or out
Noise (such as grunting) associated with breathing
“Respiratory disorders often involve the production of excess secretions in the respiratory system (for example, in the nose and lungs) that the affected animal may not be able to remove without assistance. One goal of veterinary treatment is to reduce the volume and thickness of the secretions and to make their removal easier. This can be accomplished by controlling infection, thinning the secretions, and when possible, improving drainage and mechanically removing the material.
Animals with respiratory disorders should normally receive plenty of water unless otherwise directed by the veterinarian. Adding humidity to the air may make removal of airway secretions easier. Cough medicines (expectorants) are sometimes used to thin secretions and make them easier for the animal to cough up; however, they are rarely helpful. If airway obstruction is severe, large amounts of secretions may need to be gently suctioned away by the veterinarian.”
“Steam up the bathroom. Humidity helps clear breathing passages. …
Inhalation of cool mist. If you have a cool mist humidifier or vaporizer, breathe directly in front of the stream of mist. … ”
Lauren,
I don’t know the half life of MMF, or what is the appropriate blood level required of the drug to be effective in dogs. Your vet may have a good idea of what is the lowest effective dose per 12 hours.
Some drugs do need to be exactly the same dose every 12 hours while some drugs have a cumulative effect that doesn’t require them to be dosed exactly the same dose every 12 hours.
Here is our AIHA Term page for more information.
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/mycophenolate-mofetil/
My thoughts, if this was my dog, would be that if I saw any of the beginnings of the serious side effects mentioned I would be very cautious because I would be worried about reaching dose related toxicity.
Because this is a human drug being used off label in veterinary medicine it’s hard to nail down exact doses for the best efficacy. Your vet has clinical experience to guide him, but each dog is a different situation.
Ask if they have had success with giving this with any particular food. Also find out if they can prescribe any additional protective drugs to avoid the serious gastrointestinal problems.
Anecdotally, many dogs do better with simple canned plain pumpkin added to the diet whether its diarrhea or constipation. And I can certainly recommend that now.
Again, if this were me, I would go lower in the dose specifically to avoid these problems. But you can’t take my word for this.
My best Patrice