Split: Nula (5yr old English Cocker Spaniel)

[Vally]

Actually in the early days, Bingo was taking 50mg cyclosporine, being 25mg twice a day. After a little while (maybe about a month or so), he was reduced down to 25mg once a day. He weighed about 7kg at the time. They also did what’s called a trough test to check the levels in his blood, as too much is toxic. Eventually down to 25mg every second day, where it still is.

I’ve just read the dose of cyclosporine recommended in dogs is 1.5 to 3 mg per pound (3 to 7 mg/kg) twice daily.

[Ruth]

Hi Vally, how are you and Bingo? So does the Atopica sound about right for Nula? They did say they’re treating aggressively? Her Prednisolone is 15mg twice a day. She’s doing ok today. Much the same really. Should I be expecting any more energy or anything now, or will she be like this for weeks or months? See vet again on Mon for PCV and platelets test. Tomorrow though, she’s out of the critical 2 weeks! Xxxxxx

[Vally]

Ruth, Patrice has corrected me on the information that cyclosporine is tested because it can be toxic. In a nutshell, humans required testing when using the drugs to make sure they were getting enough to prevent rejection of transplant organs not because of toxicity.

So, as long as Nula is getting the dosage as recommended, there is no need for testing.

Now, on the packet it seems to say “ATOPICA® (Cyclosporine capsules, USP) MODIFIED should be administered at 5 mg/kg/day as a single daily dose for 30 days”.

So I calculate that Nula at 15kg should be getting 75 mg a day. I think I would probably check this dosage with your vet.

As to energy levels, I found that until we started reducing the prednisone, Bingo really had very little energy to do anything other than eat and sleep. Nula won’t be like she is now forever. It is still very early days and it takes a while. When she is stable, the prednisone can be reduced and you’ll see your girl come back again.

PS, Bingo’s doing great, thanks Ruth.

Lots of love Vally & Bingo

[Linda]

Hi Ruth. So glad to hear Nula is hanging in here and actually doing pretty dog-gone good. That’s wonderful!

I agree with Vslly. The dosage of 75MG a day sounds on the mark. I only caution on the dosage because Cockers seem to do well on it, but the side effects can, not always, be different. Sadie came down with palsy (Horner’s Syndrome in dogs), on her left side of her face and when it finally seemed to be getting better, I’ll be darned if it didn’t show up on the right side. It seems to be a complication with the Atopica and Cocker Spaniels.

She also maintained very loose stools and did this thing with her mouth, like lip smacking (this can be a symptom of other problems, but when checked, all her blood levels were normal), which most canines on Atopica have not presented.

When I started weaning her off the Atopica, SLOWLY, the Horner’s Syndrome began to improve. She still has one side of her mouth that is slightly sagging and still drools water when drinking (from the right side – it was not as bad as left side but has lingered longer). She still does not close her eyes completely when sleeping, which looks quite weird, but seems overall better, as she could not close them at all. I was administering eye lubricant ointment four times a day. I don’t have to do that now, thank goodness, she can blink again.

This is my reason for concern. Just watch for any of these signs in Nula. I have known four cockers to have this happen while taking Atopica but if you research it, the documented material is almost non existent.

Also, Sadie was on 40MG Prednisone (she WAS 32 pounds). Again, congratulations on a terrific job with Nula. You are an incredible fur mom!! Nula is a very lucky girl. :)

Love and hugs, Linda and Sadie

[Ruth]

That’s interesting Linda… A few days before Nula collapsed, she started doing a weird licky thing which did make a kind of lip smacking noise. I videoed it and she had a vets appt booked for it. But she got ill a couple of days before her appt and I completely forgot in the panic of her being ill. But I did show it to the specialist vet a while later and they thought it could have been nausea? She’s slept with her eyes half open quite a bit, but she’d been doing that for ages before being ill. I’ll ask her vet though about Horners Syndrome. Her stools are mostly normal now, but she seems to be trying to kill us with noxious gas the last few nights! Seriously, she is having majorly smelly gas episodes! Is this related?? Xxxxxxx

[admin]

Hi Ruth

Don’t say I didn’t warn you about the smelly bottom – it seems to be quite common from what I’ve smelt & heard! It does get less noxious when the drugs can be reduced. Until then, clothes peg at the ready.

Linda has a good point on the Horner’s syndrome – something to think about indeed – let us know what your vets say.

In the meantime, I am glad to hear Nula’s doing so well – you have been a wonderful Mum, Ruth.

Loads of best wishes & a cuddle for your girl from all of us
Sheena, Worzel & Ollie
xxx

[Linda]

Well – about the gas episodes. Everyone around Sadie will tell you, for being such a “cute” little gal, she sure can kick some out – I keep telling her it’s not very lady-like, but she could care. And yes, it’s gotten much worse on the immune suppressants. Of course, I blame the meds, it’s not my precious little, sweet girl. ;) And it most likely is nausea related. With Sadie, I think the Atopica bothered her, so, unlike most, I started giving the Atopica immediately after her food. That helped her tummy and in turn, helped with the gas and bloating.

Sadie has an incredibly sensitive stomach. If I feed her a minuscule amount (I’m talking a itty, bitty piece) of anything other than her dog food and a few tried-tested-and true-treats, she has trouble. I have learned to stay clear of “treats” and most human foods, even though canine tolerated, and stick to a super strict diet of her food and the 4t’s.

I found a product that works well with Sadie made by Vet’s Best called Gas Buster (parsley and slippery elm) that works well. But sometimes I just put a bit of slippery elm powder into some plain Greek yogurt, which helps too and soothes her tummy.

You know, Sadie most likely didn’t close her eyes all the way either before the Horner’s Syndrome. I remember seeing it somewhat open at times. But with the Horner’s, she could not close them at all. I could literally stick my finger right into her eye and she could not close it. It was so sad. And her jowls sagged (left, then right second time). I massaged her daily – her neck, face, around her eyes, down her legs. And of course, the lubricant ointment, 4-5 times daily to her affected eye. You would know, if it’s Horner’s – it’s very obvious. Although, surprisingly, it really doesn’t seem to bother them. It’s just sad for us to see it. And, of course, they can loose an eye due to dry-eye. She’s MUCH better now. And just to be sure, hence the sun glasses – just to make sure the wind does not bother her. Goggles might be better, we’ll see. Biker Sadie – that would be a hoot.

I am so happy to hear that Nula is maintaining and always look forward to read her progress. You’re doing an awesome job!!

Love and hugs, Linda and Sadie

[Vally]

Bingo always said it wasn’t him!!! I’ve had friends over and he’d sit under the table. It was so embarrassing. It got to the point I’d warn people who came over. Sheena, you could have told me about the pegs!!!