Patrice - 29. page

[Patrice]

Irma,
Can you please tell me if they performed any kind of tick test? The most prominent sign of Lyme disease in dogs is a limp or shifting limping. Ticks usually never pass on one disease, but rather there are multiple co-infections depending on the area you live in. Some ticks diseases can lead to the symptoms you describe as they proliferate into the body.

In some areas of the country there are also outbreaks of a virulent form of canine influenza, leading to severe illness. Leptospirosis can also cause serious illness and is in many places around the US.

I would want to believe that vets automatically test for these things, but I have found that in some cases they do not. It would be important for you to ask if these tests were done and what the results were.

It’s been less than a month since this happened. Do you know if they have used doxycycline for any length of time? This is an antibiotic that is used to treat tick diseases. Please find out for me.
my best
patrice

[Patrice]

Irma,
I am sorry to hear about Roxie. You must be so worried and unsure what to do.

I wish I could help you but these test results are somewhat limited and I would need to see more test results. Have they done any x-rays or MRI or ultrasound?

Can you tell me anything about what they think is bleeding? Do they think there is an organ like the spleen that is enlarged and possibly bleeding? Perhaps they think it’s a tumor of some kind, did they say anything like that to you?

I’ve seen plenty of dogs recover with blood work like this. But we must consider Roxie’s age. There are some conditions common to many dogs as they age. They can contribute to this illness but may not be something that can be addressed.

If you can remember any of the things the vet talked about that would be helpful.

Anemia is a symptom, not a disease and is not necessarily painful. It can make a dog feel very tired. It is the condition that causes the anemia that we need to know. And more specifically is this condition treatable?

Is there any past history of illness that was diagnosed that might have led to this condition? Are you seeing your regular vet for this right now? Can you think of anything like tick disease liver problems kidney disease, infections? Was there ever a time where Roxie was really sick in past and seemed different after that?

While you are extremely upset now try to set that aside right now so you can think clearly. She still is happy to be with you and that tells me she is not in much pain, more uncomfortable and stressed by the clinic.

If this were me and I felt that I was sure nothing more could be done I would bring my dog home and spend as much happy time together as possible.

Roxie is not afraid of death, she has no way to imagine the future but lives for each moment. She is with you and that is all she ever wanted. Be with her happy and loving, show her how excited you are when she is with you. Sadness is something you must tuck away for awile. You can come here to share with us how you feel.

I will be thinking of Roxie tonight.
My best Patrice

[Patrice]

Sara,
Excellent! I personally have no doubts that this was the cyclosporine as this mirrors Chance’s recovery. Nothing for months, add the Atopica, and then he responded.

Please be sure to contact me directly about decreasing anything. I did plenty of math while he was sick and worked all of this out with Dr. Dodds each step of the way.

Remember that this recovery is dependent on keeping the killer T-cells highly suppressed for long enough to allow the bone marrow to return to normal. It’s a start, but let’s wait for the finish too, ok?
my best
patrice

[Patrice]

Sara,
We have a number of links to companion websites owned by folks who we really trust for the wealth and validity of information. Mary Straus’ Dogaware.com is our nutrition, supplements and canine disease companion website. I find Mary’s extensive information amazing. If you read everything she has gathered it would take you a month or more to absorb it. Mary knows all of this stuff in her head!

You can always find a link to her site, on our site under Nutrition Resources:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/nutrition-resources/
Just click on the picture of the dog sitting at a table!

Here is Mary’s information about oils, including coconut:
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/dwoils.html

Here is Mary’s information on Curcumin (turmeric):
http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritissupps.html#natural

Another page that addresses the use of curcumin that relates to our dogs on Second Chance:
http://dogaware.com/health/cancer.html#start
Look under: Supplements to give or avoid during chemotherapy or radiation

“A number of supplements can thin the blood and make bleeding more likely during surgery, or due to the reduction in platelets (thrombocytopenia) that can be caused by chemotherapy, or by bone cancer. Herbs that may need to be avoided include garlic, ginseng, ginkgo, saw palmetto, red clover, German chamomile, dong guai, angelica root and white willow bark. In addition, fish oil, evening primrose oil, borage oil, vitamin A, high-dose vitamin E, chondroitin, ginger, bromelain, MSM, alfalfa, hawthorne, meadowsweet, turmeric/curcumin, bilberry, feverfew, and some mushrooms all have the potential to thin the blood, though I have not seen specific recommendations to avoid them during cancer treatment. Aspirin is a potent blood-thinner; other NSAIDs have less effect. If in doubt, ask your vet. ”

You can see that curumin (turmeric) is not advised for dogs that may have bleeding conditions, like ITP, AIHA, IMHA. While we may be looking at bone marrow failure in your case it’s still best to get vet’s approval in this case.

My personal perspective is to avoid adding a lot of supplements to a treatment protocol. If there are side effects it becomes difficult to figure out which supplement or drug is actually causing the problems. We know most of the side effects of the drugs used in treatment, but the supplements can not only have side effects of their own, they can enhance side effects in those drugs or in combination create new side effects. Supplements are not regulated like drugs are so they can be considered an unknown quantity.
my best
patrice

[Patrice]

Carol,
This sounds like either canine influenza, leptospirosis or tick disease (erlichiosis?).

“Doxycycline” is specifically used for most tick diseases. And some tick diseases only respond to this drug. It has become very expensive recently due to shortages. So it is usually not prescribed unless absolutely needed.

This drug is very harsh on dogs and can make them feel very ill. This may account for his significant discomfort. Tick-L forum recommends that it only be given with food, preferably halfway through a meal, hidden in a very delicious treat. They also recommend that a dog not lie down after this dose, but remain upright and active. The usual supplements that are used to protect the stomach from ulcers by prednisone should also be used with doxy.

Treating evasive and clever tick diseases can require high doses for long periods of time.

Lyme is one of several tick diseases that can lead to symptoms of shifting lameness and neurological symptoms like facial paralysis. The spirochettes go deep into body tissues and into joints. It can also invade the blood brain border and that is when neurological symptoms begin.

Question your vet closely about the reasoning behind the use of doxy. Do they believe it is one of the three different diseases I mentioned? Have they done a SNAP4DX test? Sent out blood for more sophisticated testing?

I am guessing a lot of his discomfort is due to doxy and you can help him be less uncomfortable by trying some of the tips I mentioned. This seems to be the most common behavior dogs exhibit when taking doxy for tick disease. I promise that this treatment can be very effective so please don’t lapse dosing him until follow up tests show he is negative.

My best Patrice

[Patrice]

Sara,
The bone marrow aspirate procedure is performed by entering either into the shoulder bone or the hip bone, or sometimes both as they did on Chance. It requires anasthesia. They must go into the bone deep enough to extract marrow, so there will be some force and depth involved. So there will be a wound, trauma to the tissue and side effects of anasthesia.

Chance was in a lot of pain, he was a big dog and they had to go deep and hard to get to the marrow.

From my perspective now, with these very serious cases (and I’ve seen many ) the goal is to keep these dogs as healthy as possible while you fight the deep autoimmune condition deep in the marrow. It can take a long time for recovery and the side effects of drugs like prednisone can take a toll.

Keep stress low, no visitors etc. And I consider a bone marrow biopsy very stressful.

It is your choice however. Sometimes owners just need to feel like they are doing all they can. A vet can make a very firm and compelling argument why it should be done.

We here are, to the vets, just a group of know it all owners. In reality both Sheena and I have medical backgrounds and do have significant knowledge about veterinary hematology. Linda and vally have studied along extensively too. Together we’ve probably helped over 500 owners, perhaps more? Lost count.

You do need to do what is comfortable for you but I would recommend Dr dodds as your second opinion, just like you would do for a human family member.
My best Patrice

[Patrice]

Sara,
Please read Chance’s story under Our Stories. His story is like your story and is why I built this website, it is named in memory of Chance . The specialist was clueless about what was wrong. He talked me into a bone marrow biopsy. It was terribly harsh on his sick body. It didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know, he wasn’t making red or white blood cells. It did nothing to improve his treatment or identify the underlying cause. The specialist told me he was unsure what to do, told me I had a very beautiful dog and looked at Chance sadly. The message was clear.

It wasn’t until I contacted Dr Dodds, she put Chance on her bone marrow failure protocol and within 1 month he began to recover. He did survive and lived to the good age of 12.

Be conservative about spending large amounts of money on major tests, save that for expensive transfusions and drugs. If you can convince them to implement Dr dodds protocol and then don’t see any results in one month then consider doing more tests.

In any case, I recommend you spend the $150 for Dr dodds consultation right now. This is exactly the kind of situation she is expert in.

The moderators will help you do this and guide you along with how to manage your relationship with your vet. If you read Chance’s story you will see I did all my treatment at my local vets with consultation from Dr dodds at each step, for a full year! Jean dodds is my angel.

The extra time I got with Chance was a true blessing . I know you will be successful too. Right now it may not feel like that, but try to make each extra day count. It’s not easy but control your grief and tears right now. Be as cheerful as you can manage.

My best, patrice

[Patrice]

Second Chance AIHA Dogs has several cooperative relationships with people and websites that have information that we value highly. Without these relationships, our moderators would be overwhelmed attempting to research and pass on information that is valid and accurate.

Our goal is to provide the absolute best information we can to owners with sick dogs. We do a lot of research to make sure that happens. The internet is clogged with information that may not be reliable for many reasons, perhaps because of a money generating site or misinformation spread through forums. We try to evaluate that information so we aren’t contributing to the problem.

One of our valued relationships is with Mary Straus who owns http://www.dogaware.com. Mary has spent years researching canine nutrition. In addition she also has a wealth of information on diseases and their treatments. We trust Mary’s information and use it as a valuable resource for nutritional information.

Mary recommends Kefir for dogs and I also recommend it for dogs. It is not appropriate to say that Kefir is bad for dogs, that is misleading.

To read more about Dogaware visit our Nutrition Resources page and click on the link to Dogaware:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/nutrition-resources/

Here is the specific link to information about Kefir and dogs:
http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade2.html#muscle
“Dairy products, such as yogurt, kefir, and cottage cheese, are well tolerated by most dogs and offer good nutritional value. Yogurt with added probiotics and kefir, another cultured milk product, have the added advantage of providing beneficial bacteria (probiotics). Dairy fat is a source of medium-chain triglycerides, a form of fat that is easier to digest for dogs with pancreatic disorders and other forms of fat intolerance. ”

There are several disease conditions where dogs cannot tolerate proteins like red meat proteins. The use of cultured dairy products in moderation is beneficial especially to these dogs. Take for example kidney disease. Here is Mary’s research on a popular supplement used to treat dogs with kidney disease:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneymedical.html

“I heard but was unable to verify that the probiotics in Azodyl are a subset of those found in kefir, a cultured milk product similar to yogurt but with a wider variety of beneficial organisms, and that the manufacturers of Azodyl, when pressed, admitted that the product was derived from kefir. This suggests that feeding kefir might be beneficial for dogs with kidney disease, though Azodyl is probably a more concentrated source. Kefir is easy to make once you get the starter “grains,” which look like little cauliflowers (this is not the same as a starter culture that is sometimes sold, but which is not self-propagating. The nutritional profile is very similar to yogurt. ”

Certainly we are cautious about recommending any specific foods for dogs that have are experiencing current digestive disorders like colitis. Serious disease like that is best treated by a vet and whatever the vet says trumps our recommendations. However, that said, Mary’s information about these serious conditions is valid and should be taken into consideration.
my best
patrice