snoopy

[jill]

Thankyou so much for all your help , we have printed off the test results of Sadie , and we have the questions ,and information you have supplied us via web site, so we are ready to go, I have changed time of appointment so hubby can come as back up and receptionist has given us a 30 min slot instead of 15. I will buy some pumpkin tomorrow as resco shut now. diareh is slightly better. Snoopy will be having his blood levels checked and also vet said he would do test to see if his blood is regenerating? Do hope the blood levels have stayed stable or even have gone up would be great. Me and hubby just been talking and he said if they didn’t see ulcer in ultersound when they did it in beginning ,and they still haven’t found what caused it there couldbe an underlying illness which might come back? I do worry,its a bit like being on a rollercoaster.has anyone else suffered this were they couldn’t find the course and there dog still been ok after the drug treatment?

[Sheena]

Hi Jill

Goodness, loads of people never find out what happened to cause this – most, I would say. We are lucky if we do find out. So don’t worry about this at all – it makes no difference to the outcome – the treatment is the same. Most dogs make a complete & full recovery & go into remission (we never say cure on here) with the right treatment – that’s what you must concentrate on – the right treatment.

That does NOT mean vets shouldn’t make every effort to find the problem & eliminate the cause. For example, if it’s a bacterial infection, the infection must be treated otherwise the dog will not recover without antibiotic treatment. They could even get worse because the immuno-suppresssant drugs would allow the infection to run wild. Even things like vaccinations can cause it. There really are loads of different causes which we can’t find because technology is not able to do so at this time.

Primary is the word used when no apparent cause is found for IMHA/AIHA – it just happens. Secondary is when the disease is triggered by something such as infection, onion poisoning, hypothyroidism, vaccinations, tick disease – a long list. Certain drugs/antibiotics can even cause it imeediately or even months & months after they have initially been given. It’s a complicated disease for sure!

The test for regeneration is called a reticulocyte count – that was one of the tests we wanted – so that’s a good start! Infections almost always cause raised neutrophils – that is why we wanted to see those figures too.

Rollercoaster ride is exactly the description I & many people on here would use – but we are riding it alongside you.

Good luck tomorrow – let us know if you need anything else at all.

Love Sheena & the hounds
xxxxx

[jill]

Thank you so much Sheena, I understand more when you explain things. When we first saw Vet with Snoopy, he asked us to think back to see if he had eaten onions, and other poisonus things but there was nothing, the only thing Snoopy did have before xmas was Frontline which I mentioned to the vet who said he doubts that’s the cause as his always had it? but it was a week or 2 before I noticed a few symptons like lying down more not as much energy, I just thought he was getting older, I wish I had checked his gums then , I will always check them from now on, and have asked my sisters to check there dogs regularily to.its a shame more people don’t realise dogs can get this god awful desease, at least it seems to be rare. Will chat again soon after vets. love Jill xxx ps Snoopys antibiotic has run out now and vet said its ok not to have more? is this ok?

[Sheena]

Hi Jill

Glad you are gum checking! It sounds like Snoopy got ill fairly slowly & it’s often hard to tell if there is really something serious or they are just a bit off-colour.

Hope you got on better at the vets & managed to get hold of those results, plus got them to answer all you questions this time.

Your vet must think Snoopy has recovered from the infection – did you ask what they thought it could be? If you see any signs of anything untoward such as high temperature, extreme panting, extreme lethargy, tell them straight away.

Hoping you can let us see all the test results soon – well done you!

This disease is very rare in the UK – no one I know had ever come across it at all. None of the vets in the large practice I used to go to (including a vet hospital) had seen a case. My old vet remembered vaguely being taught about it at vet school! Plenty of cases of straight forward anaemia though.

I have a feeling more cases will appear over there because of the increase in the number of ticks you have – there has been a massive rise in the past few years. They carry all sorts of horrible diseases, many of which can trigger IMHA. I only ever saw one tick in the UK on my dogs. Here in France, they are everywhere. Nasty things. I use Frontline Combo monthly, always have. But Worzel still got a tick disease, so it’s not 100% effective. I always tell everyone coming here on holiday to make sure they have protected their dogs from ticks now. It’s not obligatory on the way out of the UK (stupid in my opinion), but an obligatory treatment is given at a vets before you go back & put in the Pet Passport. A bit late then for your dog if it has already been bitten & infected.

Speak soon

Love Sheena & the Hounds xxxxx

[jill]

Hi all, had vets appointment today, They have sent off blood for blood levels and regenerating test will let me know as soon as they are back. I asked the questions you gave me Sheena, here are the answers,Snoopys blood count was 8 when he came in. He hasn’t anddidn’t have infection .he said he done coombs test, did see spherocytes.He said they have done Fe/B12/cobalam//Faecal occult Hod +ve//abde a/s? im hoping I have read them right as he wrote them down for me and not very clear.I have asked for all the test results again and he said he will email me them , also if I have anyquestions ive got his e mail address.I asked about blood clotting drug but he said they were being cautious in case Snoopy has GI bleed,mayby in future. They have done Ultersound and bone marrow biopsy/test and found nothing.He checked Snoopys gums and he said they were pink.i asked about Denamarin or milk thistle for liver but he said he is showing no sighns of him needing it, but if I want there is alternative called Sam E? we said ok.We had run out of Zantac, so vet said he would leave it off now as Snoopy been having bit diareh . Hope you can make sense of what I wrote , been busy evening . Snoopy now is on the omeprazole, prednisilone, Azothioprine and Sam E drugs , im hoping im doing write thing by adding Sam E? as vet didn’t seem that keen on Snoopy having it? Sorry this is so long, hope you lovely people are ok and your doggies to , love Jill xxxx

[Sheena]

Hello Jill!

Wow, you have done such a great job. Snoopy’s PCV was only 8? Poor chap must have felt terrible. Shame they didn’t tell you the Coombs test result – positive or negative.

How is you lovely boy feeling today? I hope he’s relaxed & comfortable. Is he eating OK now?

I am also reluctant about anti-clotting meds seeing the blood in his poo result – this makes it difficult, even though there were spherocytes – how many is important though, so we’ll have a good chat when we see the test results etc. He must have had a bleed. So are they doing anything further to see about this bleed? Endoscopy – gastroscopy, colonoscopy?

In that case, you need to take extra care of his tummy. I am really disappointed they won’t add sucralfate or similar. I know a herbal alternative you can get which is similar, but not quite as good – slippery elm – get some capsules from a good health food store – organic & a good make. You must give this 2 hours away from any other medication as it stops absorption. Worzel gets a slippery elm capsule if he has tummy ache. It is very safe -I never risk giving him anything that I am not sure about even now, I promise. You can make a paste with it, but I am lazy & pop a capsule down his throat – how do you give them paste easily anyway! A minimum of one capsule very last thing at night would be really good. I feel this is important for Snoopy to give him the best chance for his tummy to heal.

I don’t understand the reluctance to use Denamarin – you do not want Snoopy’s liver enzymes to go up – and they will – I sent you Worzel’s tests & his shot up in a couple of weeks on these drugs – milk thistle brought them down. These enzymes can end up sky high – prevention now seems like a no brainer to me. Sadie has high enzymes too, so her specialist wants her to continue with it. Sam E is OK, but it is the milk thistle in the denamarin as well as the Sam-E that helps our dogs. Please trust us – just about all of us used or still use milk thistle. The UK is so behind on this kind of thing, I’m sad to say.

Jill, I know this has been very hard for you & you have done a fantastic job trying to get the vets to give you info. Hang in there – I had a few tricky times with vets myself & it’s a case of doing your best for Snoopy & politely but firmly putting you point across when you need to. He is your baby, not theirs! You know him better than anyone & I think you are fighting his corner really well.

Snoopy needs an extra cuddle tonight from me – please give a big kiss too. And you must get some rest too – this disease stresses us out beyond belief so take the chance to relax as much as you can. I don’t think I slept properly for weeks & weeks – it’a long haul.

Love & huge hugs
Sheena & the snoring boys xxxxx

[jill]

Hi Sheena,/ all, im bit disappointed really as to not come home with the results I asked for on weekend , he did say he will e mail them and takes time to collate.At least I have his e mail address now, I can contact him easier with that. Snoopy is still on the Hills I D, mainly because its gentle on tum and helps diareh, I must pop into town for the slippery elm.Do I leave off giving him the Sam e and give him that instead? They are not doing anything further to envestigate bleed I think they trying to see if it has stopped by testing blood?they said a bleed never showed up on ultersound, but there could have been one? Do you think the coombs teat result will be with the others when he e mails them to me? I m also thinking of asking him for the milk thistle when he rings me about the results of Snoopys tests, is there any reason why he cant have it do you know? I did say to him im worried about his liver, that’s when he came up with the Sam e? I had never heard of it so thought it was better than having nothi If I get the slippery elm , I still need the milk thistle for liver right? sorry to keep asking you just want to be sure, thanks for all your help xxxx love jill

[admin]

Hi Jill

How is Snoopy doing? I hope he’s still feeling brighter. Did your vet give you the PCV result yesterday? (That’s the blood count %).
You are doing so brilliantly in looking after Snoopy and trying to get answers from the vet. This is a rare disease and many vets are not experienced in treating it. Mine had never seen a case, but fortunately sent Molly on to a specialist when it was beyond her scope of practice. Sheena’s ‘leading questions’ are a great idea, and well done for asking them. A blood smear and reticulocyte count are basic and essential. Can you confirm – has a bone marrow biopsy been done? I’m quite surprised they would have done this without a smear and retic%. The reticulocyte count helps to show if the anaemia is regenerative (meaning the bone marrow is working overtime to replace the destroyed blood cells), or non-regenerative (meaning the body isn’t making up the destroyed red cells, or that they are being destroyed when they are baby red cells).

In my opinion, you wouldn’t want to stop the Azathioprine now. Prednisolone is very important but often it isn’t enough to stop the destruction of red blood cells. If it were me, I would continue. I know it is hard pumping them full of medication, but it is lifesaving and there are many supplements which can be used to help with side effects. As Sheena said, do watch her closely, due to the risk of pancreatitis.

You can get Libbys 100% pure canned pumpkin in the American foods section in Tesco, or in the tinned fruit section in Waitrose. Let me know if you’re struggling – I’ve got a can in the cupboard I can happily send to you. The dog owners (everyone else except me!) can help with advice on milk thistle vs. slippery elm vs. SamE. I *think* all can be given (the milk thistle and SamE for liver, and the slippery elm for tummy), but I’d just like someone else to confirm that.

Please don’t worry about not knowing the cause. As Sheena said, that is true in most cases. If the cause can be found, that’s good and hopefully can be reversed or prevented in future, but there are many cases where it is never found. I note your vet is asking about onions, which can cause something called Heinz body anaemia. I’m wondering why they are asking about this without doing a smear, as I think I am right in saying heinz bodies would show up on a smear (is that right Sheena?)
Many cases of IMHA present very fast, others slowly. Molly also developed symptoms very slowly and it was just subtle signs that made me take her to the vet.

I’m not sure why Snoopy was on antibiotics if he has not had an infection. It may be they did it ‘just in case’ – some vets do.

Some vets are a bit umcomfortable about people getting advice online. It’s understandable – you do need to be careful about what advice you follow, but everything we tell you here is based on evidence and experience and if we don’t know, we will say so. I am glad to know you are feeling empowered – that’s so important. It’s vital to be working together with this – the vet with all their knowledge and experience of veterinary medicine, and the owners with all their knowledge and experience of the animal! I’m glad you are able to email your vet, I think that’s a good lifeline to have.

Anyway, sorry for such a long email, but just wanted to catch up and send my very best wishes. Give Snoopy a cuddle from us

Mary and Mable x

[jill]

Thankyou so much for all your help , we have printed off the test results of Sadie , and we have the questions ,and information you have supplied us via web site, so we are ready to go, I have changed time of appointment so hubby can come as back up and receptionist has given us a 30 min slot instead of 15. I will buy some pumpkin tomorrow as resco shut now. diareh is slightly better. Snoopy will be having his blood levels checked and also vet said he would do test to see if his blood is regenerating? Do hope the blood levels have stayed stable or even have gone up would be great. Me and hubby just been talking and he said if they didn’t see ulcer in ultersound when they did it in beginning ,and they still haven’t found what caused it there couldbe an underlying illness which might come back? I do worry,its a bit like being on a rollercoaster.has anyone else suffered this were they couldn’t find the course and there dog still been ok after the drug treatment?

[Sheena]

Hi Jill

Goodness, loads of people never find out what happened to cause this – most, I would say. We are lucky if we do find out. So don’t worry about this at all – it makes no difference to the outcome – the treatment is the same. Most dogs make a complete & full recovery & go into remission (we never say cure on here) with the right treatment – that’s what you must concentrate on – the right treatment.

That does NOT mean vets shouldn’t make every effort to find the problem & eliminate the cause. For example, if it’s a bacterial infection, the infection must be treated otherwise the dog will not recover without antibiotic treatment. They could even get worse because the immuno-suppresssant drugs would allow the infection to run wild. Even things like vaccinations can cause it. There really are loads of different causes which we can’t find because technology is not able to do so at this time.

Primary is the word used when no apparent cause is found for IMHA/AIHA – it just happens. Secondary is when the disease is triggered by something such as infection, onion poisoning, hypothyroidism, vaccinations, tick disease – a long list. Certain drugs/antibiotics can even cause it imeediately or even months & months after they have initially been given. It’s a complicated disease for sure!

The test for regeneration is called a reticulocyte count – that was one of the tests we wanted – so that’s a good start! Infections almost always cause raised neutrophils – that is why we wanted to see those figures too.

Rollercoaster ride is exactly the description I & many people on here would use – but we are riding it alongside you.

Good luck tomorrow – let us know if you need anything else at all.

Love Sheena & the hounds
xxxxx

[jill]

Thank you so much Sheena, I understand more when you explain things. When we first saw Vet with Snoopy, he asked us to think back to see if he had eaten onions, and other poisonus things but there was nothing, the only thing Snoopy did have before xmas was Frontline which I mentioned to the vet who said he doubts that’s the cause as his always had it? but it was a week or 2 before I noticed a few symptons like lying down more not as much energy, I just thought he was getting older, I wish I had checked his gums then , I will always check them from now on, and have asked my sisters to check there dogs regularily to.its a shame more people don’t realise dogs can get this god awful desease, at least it seems to be rare. Will chat again soon after vets. love Jill xxx ps Snoopys antibiotic has run out now and vet said its ok not to have more? is this ok?

[Sheena]

Hi Jill

Glad you are gum checking! It sounds like Snoopy got ill fairly slowly & it’s often hard to tell if there is really something serious or they are just a bit off-colour.

Hope you got on better at the vets & managed to get hold of those results, plus got them to answer all you questions this time.

Your vet must think Snoopy has recovered from the infection – did you ask what they thought it could be? If you see any signs of anything untoward such as high temperature, extreme panting, extreme lethargy, tell them straight away.

Hoping you can let us see all the test results soon – well done you!

This disease is very rare in the UK – no one I know had ever come across it at all. None of the vets in the large practice I used to go to (including a vet hospital) had seen a case. My old vet remembered vaguely being taught about it at vet school! Plenty of cases of straight forward anaemia though.

I have a feeling more cases will appear over there because of the increase in the number of ticks you have – there has been a massive rise in the past few years. They carry all sorts of horrible diseases, many of which can trigger IMHA. I only ever saw one tick in the UK on my dogs. Here in France, they are everywhere. Nasty things. I use Frontline Combo monthly, always have. But Worzel still got a tick disease, so it’s not 100% effective. I always tell everyone coming here on holiday to make sure they have protected their dogs from ticks now. It’s not obligatory on the way out of the UK (stupid in my opinion), but an obligatory treatment is given at a vets before you go back & put in the Pet Passport. A bit late then for your dog if it has already been bitten & infected.

Speak soon

Love Sheena & the Hounds xxxxx

[jill]

Hi all, had vets appointment today, They have sent off blood for blood levels and regenerating test will let me know as soon as they are back. I asked the questions you gave me Sheena, here are the answers,Snoopys blood count was 8 when he came in. He hasn’t anddidn’t have infection .he said he done coombs test, did see spherocytes.He said they have done Fe/B12/cobalam//Faecal occult Hod +ve//abde a/s? im hoping I have read them right as he wrote them down for me and not very clear.I have asked for all the test results again and he said he will email me them , also if I have anyquestions ive got his e mail address.I asked about blood clotting drug but he said they were being cautious in case Snoopy has GI bleed,mayby in future. They have done Ultersound and bone marrow biopsy/test and found nothing.He checked Snoopys gums and he said they were pink.i asked about Denamarin or milk thistle for liver but he said he is showing no sighns of him needing it, but if I want there is alternative called Sam E? we said ok.We had run out of Zantac, so vet said he would leave it off now as Snoopy been having bit diareh . Hope you can make sense of what I wrote , been busy evening . Snoopy now is on the omeprazole, prednisilone, Azothioprine and Sam E drugs , im hoping im doing write thing by adding Sam E? as vet didn’t seem that keen on Snoopy having it? Sorry this is so long, hope you lovely people are ok and your doggies to , love Jill xxxx

[Sheena]

Hello Jill!

Wow, you have done such a great job. Snoopy’s PCV was only 8? Poor chap must have felt terrible. Shame they didn’t tell you the Coombs test result – positive or negative.

How is you lovely boy feeling today? I hope he’s relaxed & comfortable. Is he eating OK now?

I am also reluctant about anti-clotting meds seeing the blood in his poo result – this makes it difficult, even though there were spherocytes – how many is important though, so we’ll have a good chat when we see the test results etc. He must have had a bleed. So are they doing anything further to see about this bleed? Endoscopy – gastroscopy, colonoscopy?

In that case, you need to take extra care of his tummy. I am really disappointed they won’t add sucralfate or similar. I know a herbal alternative you can get which is similar, but not quite as good – slippery elm – get some capsules from a good health food store – organic & a good make. You must give this 2 hours away from any other medication as it stops absorption. Worzel gets a slippery elm capsule if he has tummy ache. It is very safe -I never risk giving him anything that I am not sure about even now, I promise. You can make a paste with it, but I am lazy & pop a capsule down his throat – how do you give them paste easily anyway! A minimum of one capsule very last thing at night would be really good. I feel this is important for Snoopy to give him the best chance for his tummy to heal.

I don’t understand the reluctance to use Denamarin – you do not want Snoopy’s liver enzymes to go up – and they will – I sent you Worzel’s tests & his shot up in a couple of weeks on these drugs – milk thistle brought them down. These enzymes can end up sky high – prevention now seems like a no brainer to me. Sadie has high enzymes too, so her specialist wants her to continue with it. Sam E is OK, but it is the milk thistle in the denamarin as well as the Sam-E that helps our dogs. Please trust us – just about all of us used or still use milk thistle. The UK is so behind on this kind of thing, I’m sad to say.

Jill, I know this has been very hard for you & you have done a fantastic job trying to get the vets to give you info. Hang in there – I had a few tricky times with vets myself & it’s a case of doing your best for Snoopy & politely but firmly putting you point across when you need to. He is your baby, not theirs! You know him better than anyone & I think you are fighting his corner really well.

Snoopy needs an extra cuddle tonight from me – please give a big kiss too. And you must get some rest too – this disease stresses us out beyond belief so take the chance to relax as much as you can. I don’t think I slept properly for weeks & weeks – it’a long haul.

Love & huge hugs
Sheena & the snoring boys xxxxx

[jill]

Hi Sheena,/ all, im bit disappointed really as to not come home with the results I asked for on weekend , he did say he will e mail them and takes time to collate.At least I have his e mail address now, I can contact him easier with that. Snoopy is still on the Hills I D, mainly because its gentle on tum and helps diareh, I must pop into town for the slippery elm.Do I leave off giving him the Sam e and give him that instead? They are not doing anything further to envestigate bleed I think they trying to see if it has stopped by testing blood?they said a bleed never showed up on ultersound, but there could have been one? Do you think the coombs teat result will be with the others when he e mails them to me? I m also thinking of asking him for the milk thistle when he rings me about the results of Snoopys tests, is there any reason why he cant have it do you know? I did say to him im worried about his liver, that’s when he came up with the Sam e? I had never heard of it so thought it was better than having nothi If I get the slippery elm , I still need the milk thistle for liver right? sorry to keep asking you just want to be sure, thanks for all your help xxxx love jill

[admin]

Hi Jill

How is Snoopy doing? I hope he’s still feeling brighter. Did your vet give you the PCV result yesterday? (That’s the blood count %).
You are doing so brilliantly in looking after Snoopy and trying to get answers from the vet. This is a rare disease and many vets are not experienced in treating it. Mine had never seen a case, but fortunately sent Molly on to a specialist when it was beyond her scope of practice. Sheena’s ‘leading questions’ are a great idea, and well done for asking them. A blood smear and reticulocyte count are basic and essential. Can you confirm – has a bone marrow biopsy been done? I’m quite surprised they would have done this without a smear and retic%. The reticulocyte count helps to show if the anaemia is regenerative (meaning the bone marrow is working overtime to replace the destroyed blood cells), or non-regenerative (meaning the body isn’t making up the destroyed red cells, or that they are being destroyed when they are baby red cells).

In my opinion, you wouldn’t want to stop the Azathioprine now. Prednisolone is very important but often it isn’t enough to stop the destruction of red blood cells. If it were me, I would continue. I know it is hard pumping them full of medication, but it is lifesaving and there are many supplements which can be used to help with side effects. As Sheena said, do watch her closely, due to the risk of pancreatitis.

You can get Libbys 100% pure canned pumpkin in the American foods section in Tesco, or in the tinned fruit section in Waitrose. Let me know if you’re struggling – I’ve got a can in the cupboard I can happily send to you. The dog owners (everyone else except me!) can help with advice on milk thistle vs. slippery elm vs. SamE. I *think* all can be given (the milk thistle and SamE for liver, and the slippery elm for tummy), but I’d just like someone else to confirm that.

Please don’t worry about not knowing the cause. As Sheena said, that is true in most cases. If the cause can be found, that’s good and hopefully can be reversed or prevented in future, but there are many cases where it is never found. I note your vet is asking about onions, which can cause something called Heinz body anaemia. I’m wondering why they are asking about this without doing a smear, as I think I am right in saying heinz bodies would show up on a smear (is that right Sheena?)
Many cases of IMHA present very fast, others slowly. Molly also developed symptoms very slowly and it was just subtle signs that made me take her to the vet.

I’m not sure why Snoopy was on antibiotics if he has not had an infection. It may be they did it ‘just in case’ – some vets do.

Some vets are a bit umcomfortable about people getting advice online. It’s understandable – you do need to be careful about what advice you follow, but everything we tell you here is based on evidence and experience and if we don’t know, we will say so. I am glad to know you are feeling empowered – that’s so important. It’s vital to be working together with this – the vet with all their knowledge and experience of veterinary medicine, and the owners with all their knowledge and experience of the animal! I’m glad you are able to email your vet, I think that’s a good lifeline to have.

Anyway, sorry for such a long email, but just wanted to catch up and send my very best wishes. Give Snoopy a cuddle from us

Mary and Mable x