IMHA berner with uti

[Vally]

Amy, if pancreatitis, that’s serious and needs to be seen by vet. No food . If you’re going to the vets, no water either.

See:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/pancreatitis

Remember the gums will always go pale when resting and colour returns when they are more active.

[Amy]

Vally, thank you for the info. Maybe not pancreatitis? His symptoms are gurgling tummy, diarrhea that’s orange and slightly oily and food aversions.

He’s had the diarrhea since day 1 and the vet said it was due to the meds and to give him pumpkin and low fat/protein. We had him on a beef kibble that he really enjoyed when we came home from icu but it was very hard on his tummy.

We have been through several types, brands and ingredients of kibble but nothing has stuck since he was diagnosed. Prior to that he was on a limited ingredient duck and potato for years after a bout with a food allergy to chicken.

Tucker has been quiet and resting all day aside from outside for bathroom breaks, but I do see a shift in gums. It feels like the past is repeating itself. He’s acting the same as when he came home from icu. Same symptoms, same worry, same fighting spirit.

He’s also panting much less which I’m thankful for. I had a long chat with my husband and also my dad and they both reassured me I’m doing everything in Tucker’s best interest.

My dad said if he’s in pain then you know it’s time. If he’s not in pain and he’s fighting you continue. My husband said to keep my chin up and don’t stress over the little things but watch for the big things like won’t eat, won’t go outside, won’t wag his tail. For now just keep moving forward.

[Vally]

I’m crossing everything for you that he’ll be feeling better very soon.

Big hugs.

[Vally]

Amy, Patrice has just emailed this through to me to post:

Gurgling with oily is often a problem with SIBO small intestine bacterial overgrowth, usually due to being treated with antibiotics. This is covered in detail on this page. You know that I recommend a treatment of metrondiazole along with a very potent probiotic, the one I linked to you Natures way Optima. She needs to use something with 14 probiotic strains, at a dose of at least 35billion. Expensive but worth it.

Low fat diet, as the berner is unable to diet fat properly, enough calories to get to the next meal, just enough protein and easily digestible carbohydrates.

Have a look at this site too:
http://dogaware.com/health/digestive.html

[Vally]

Another message from Patrice:

Yes it could be pancreatitis. Ask the vet to do the cPL Canine pancreatic specific
lipase test.

It could also be EPI, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency.

This is all covered on the dogaware page I linked to. You can read this page and match up the symptoms with the conditions.

But it makes sense, the dog gets hungry and wants to eat but when he does it hurts badly and he isn’t getting the nutrition into the body. Small easy to digest meals to rest the pancreas, just enough calories to get to the next meal. Rice congee, try the liquid only at first, recipe is on Mary’s site. I am not sure if fasting would help but that is usually recommended during the acute stage of pancreatitis. The cPL test would tell you if it is pancreatitis.

[Amy]

I have a probiotic from the vet. I’ll add it ASAP. I can do the small meals. He’s picky right now and I don’t think he’d go for rice. It’s beef he’s eating. Sometimes I can get him to do bread, mashed potatoes were a no. He’s stopped eating cheese as well. Anything fatty aside from beef. I have some lean cuts of steak in the freezer I could give him. I could make my own cheeseburgers but I’d rather get him eating a balanced diet. It’s one thing I hope to go over with dr Dodd’s. I think there were a lot of errors made with tucker due to lack of knowledge with IMHA. Partially on my part but still hoping for the best

[Amy]

Also he’s been wanting cold water and won’t drink room temperature water unless he must. I have a bowl of water outside for him that he prefers. Is there correlation? He never had a preference before the antibiotics

[Amy]

Morning to all! Our vet called me yesterday evening to see how tucker was doing. He did say there is signs of cell regeneration but that his body was attacking them faster than he could make them. Which is why the low hematocrit reading on Tuesday.

He asked a lot of questions and assured me that it wasn’t time to put him down considering he’s perked up, eating, drinking etc. The hope is his body settles down and stops or decreases the speed in which he’s attacking his rbc.

He went on to explain that this disease is complex and no one knows it all and that in some cases we have to go by the animal and how they’re doing. He said if tucker is trying to fight then we should do all we can. He said to take it day by day.

I also said this was déjà vu, exactly as it played out when we returned from the icu. The symptoms, the food preferences and aversions, etc. Due to this he wants to go back to what we were doing at that time as it worked:

– lean beef and rice to eat
– no activity, no walks and very short in/out for potty
– rest, rest, rest

I haven’t heard from jean Dodd yet but will contact Monday if I haven’t heard anything.

I did have some questions..

His current medication schedule is
AM: 225mg atopica, 15mg mirtazapine with food. Right now his pills are hidden in donut and I give him a meal. Beef, potatoes, chicken etc

PM: 225mg atopica, 50mg prednisone, 15mg mirtazapine, 30mg cerenia with food. Same food as morning schedule.

He has been on this since schedule we took him to icu the beginning of September. The only medication that says to be taken with food is the atopica.

Should we do atopica separately, as mentioned above? Is there I’ll effects of feeding with atopica?

I am now today switching to small meals every few hours. He’s used to a big meal in the morning and was searching for more. Is that normal? He’s picking the beef out of the mixture of potatoes and only eating them if there isn’t anything else to eat that he wants.

He has turkey stew (turkey, sweet potato, rice, carrot) available at anytime, beef kibble all the time and periodically through out the day I add more beef to his bowl. He’s eating around the clock. Typically a big meal in the AM (1200-1600 calories), whatever I eat around noon (an egg, some cheese, blueberries. Maybe another 200-300 cals) and then again at dinner time with his pills (another donut – which is all I can feed him with his pills, more beef, chicken etc. Another 500-600 cals) and then through out the night when he’s up for a potty he goes back to the food and will eat a snack of whatever’s left on his plate (another 200ish cals, 2-3 times during the night). He’s eating anywhere from 2300-3000 cals in 24 hours. Should I just keep him in that schedule our should I feed him about 400-600 cals every 2-3 hours? He’s never been one to wait for food and was free fed before. Trying to figure out what will be best for his tummy and diarrhea. I also want to try and readd pumpkin as that firmed up his poops last time very well but he developed a food aversion to it when he got the uti.

Is there anything else I can do to support cell regeneration? Supplements etc?

Also, I feel strongly that this decline is directly related to the antibiotics from the E. coli uti. Does it take some time for the body to decrease destruction of cells after a bout of antibiotics? He’s been off them now for 10 days. His last hematocrit reading was a week post antibiotics but no cerenia and appetite stimulant which caused a decrease in eating and lethargy. Historically he’s taken a long time to react positively with more cell regeneration vs cell destruction.

He was on antibiotics the whole time in the icu and we would see a lot of peaks and valleys with his hematocrit. Once we left (it was a Wednesday) to his next appointment (the following Monday) he was the same rbc. It took 2 weeks to see a gain.

I sent this info to the internal medicine specialist who has since wondered if it just a bizarre case of slow response. I’m wondering if it’s yet again, history repeating itself and it will take a good 2 weeks to see a shift. Does it usually take a while to see a positive response post antibiotics?

Thanks again for all the replies and help!