Hector

[Clara]

I should also mention that last Monday 7/28 his PCV was 23%. We’re not sure if it plummeted as a result of his “Weeklong GI upset” or if he really is crashing.
He stayed in the low 30’s for months. I know that’s still not exactly normal, but I would have been happy if he stayed in that range.

[Vally]

Hi Clara, Hector is a gorgeous boy. I just want to add my encouragement to contact Dr Dodds too, especially with this complicated combination. She’s a wonderful lady and I’m always impressed by everybody’s comments, not only about her knowledge, but her compassion.

I’m not sure if it’s appropriate, but has thyroxine been mentioned? That has often kick started the better production of red blood, but again, I know nothing about the tick disease.

Clara, truly everyone here is fabulous and we all hold each others’ hands though thick and thin. We all just love our mutts (and cats).

Vally & Bingo (diag Nov 2011 in remission)

[Clara]

That’s one thing I wanted to discuss with Dr. Dodds. As wonderful as my current vets are, I’m not sure they understand the hows or whys of supplementing with thyroid hormones for Hector’s condition (nor do I). I myself have autoimmune thyroid disease so I very much understand how much the thyroid affects everything, but I don’t really have much info about how it helps IMHA dogs.

[Tamara]

Clara, Dr. Dodds recommends supplementing dogs with IMHA with thyroid hormone for a couple of reasons; thyroid hormone will stimulate the bone marrow, and the meds our dogs are on suppress thyroid function. My first vet (I’ve changed vets since Ashki’s diagnosis and I’m SO glad I did) wouldn’t go for it so I had Ashki’s thyroid tested at Dr. Dodds’ lab and he came back very hypothyroid. Once we added the soloxine Ashki had an big uptick in reticulocytes, but then they fell again because of some other untreated issues. I finally feel like we’re getting to the point of addressing all his issues and feel hopeful with this new vet. I am feeling more and more strongly that many of our dogs have, in addition to IMHA, anemia of inflammation. I think that we need to do all we can to reduce inflammation. I’ve changed Ashki’s diet to no grains and no starchy vegetables and have added some supplements with the help of a holistic vet to also reduce inflammation. I had Ashki test for food sensitivities through Dr. Dodds’ lab to make sure I wasn’t feeding him anything that would add inflammation. Ashki’s poops were consistently mucousy and the new vet added a therapeutic dose of probiotics and his poops are now normal — and we had a very big jump in PCV this last week!! What Patrice was writing about with regard to iron metabolism — this is part of anemia of inflammation, and I believe was a big part of Ashki’s struggle to get better. You are doing such a great job, continuing to dig and read and look for answers. You know Hector better than anyone. Trust your instincts; if you think there’s something more going on, I’m betting on you. That’s why I switched vets — the first one was not taking my concerns seriously about Ashki’s low regenerative response. I’m so glad I found a specialist who is taking my concerns seriously and talking with me about them.
sending you hugs —
tamara and ashki xoxoxox

[Tamara]

ps I always have to read what Patrice and Sheena send me about a dozen times before I fully get it — I think we ‘re so fried from dealing with this disease! Hang in there and let us know how we can help. xoxo

[Patrice]

Clara,
If I saw the CBC and chem screens I could tell you for sure exactly what transpired. But yes, the immune system can be triggered by the tick disease and attack its own red blood cells. IMHA. Some of the tick diseases are a common trigger. As I said, Lyme is not one of those but never-the-less has its own serious implications.

The first experience some veterinarians had with the tick disease Ehrlichiosis were with military German Shepherds returning from Viet Nam with a disease they called canine hemorrhagic fever. These dogs were very sick. They had serious autoimmune hemolytic anemia combined with thrombocytopenia, a severe shortage of platelets. This is the most dangerous condition. A dog that does not have enough platelets cannot control internal bleeding via clotting. This is extremely serious and can lead to a condition called DIC disseminated intravascular coagulation. Without intervention a dog can succumb to this condition.

A tick disease can even trigger the immune system to begin attacking the precursor cells in the bone marrow so that the dog stops making red blood cells or platelets or even white blood cells. This is a particularly difficult condition to treat.

So at some point Hector’s immune system was challenged by the Babesiosis and reacted by attempting to destroy the tick disease by destroying the red blood cells. IMHA. The question is were there co-infections with other tick diseases? Did they test for them?

It’s important to think of AIHA and IMHA as complex conditions that can have more than one trigger. For instance a pure bred dog from a good line that has no health issues and is exposed to Babesiosis may be able to throw it off with mild symptoms. An older dog that has been ill for a while and is stressed from constant pain will likely not be successful in fighting it off.

All kinds of things impact how our dog’s immune system functions. The big ticket items for dogs are inherited genetics, general health, age, diet, stress, hormones (sex), viruses, bacteria, thyroid health and vaccinations. Dogs can also be affected by things like bee stings, snake or spider bites. They can also eat inappropriate things that can lead to hemolytic anemia or cause serious allergic reactions. Exposure to several of these at one time can set off an autoimmune attack, not only on RBC but on tissues and organs. We can probably never know all the triggers that led our dog to develop IMHA.

Certain things that might challenge the immune system at this point in Hector may weaken it and that might lead to a relapse of Babesiosis. Sometimes with these dogs you just have to take more care with them.

In humans it is well known that older folks who have a major accident like a fall or other health issue tend to develop painful shingles. The immune system that was protecting them all their life from their childhood chicken pox virus (living in the roots of the spinal cord nerves) let down it’s guard and shingles erupted.
my best
patrice

[admin]

Hi Clara
You & Tamara are fighting a similar battle in that their PCVs just won’t go up – it’s very frustrating for both of you. Hypothyroidism is definitely a cause of AIHA/IMHA & Dr Dodds protocol includes soloxine (even if that wasn’t the original trigger) because that useful thyroid hormone encourages red cell production. Have a look at these when you can:
http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife-diagnostics/veterinary-thyroid-testing.html
http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife-diagnostics/t4-ft4-ratio-thyroid.html
and our site information
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/hypothyroidism/
I also have a paper from Dr Dodds which I can’t find a link for & will e-mail it to you privately.

Mary was rightly concerned about the clotting risks because many dogs & cats succumb to blood clots with this disease. You can read about it in our glossary of AIHA terms :
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/abnormal-clotting/
I am more than happy to look at Hector’s blood tests if you want, but I am hoping your vets would have picked up on this already as hector has been poorly for some time???

Sorry to bombard you with loads of links – basically it gives you more information & possibilities with Hector’s treatment.

I made the mistake of looking up that despicable NFL man you mentioned – my husband’s language was ripe when I showed him. What a complete scumbag. We had quite a few fighting dogs come into a dog rescue home I was involved with in the UK & this sort of behaviour is beyond my comprehension. They were often the hardest to re-home for obvious reasons & some became permanent residents (it was a never destroy a healthy dog policy home). Clara – you are a star.

Keep us posted – anything else we can help with, just ask.
Sheena, Worzel Ollie xxxx

[Clara]

Patrice,
I appreciate the reminder about this being a complex condition with more than one trigger. I had a similar conversation with someone the other day because I was oversimplifying and trying to figure out which thing triggered the immune attack. But you (and she) were right. It could be several things and I will never really know the “perfect storm” that is taking Hector down.
Sheena,
I don’t mind links. I like all the information. And I have been trying to figure out how to bring up and explain the thyroid connection with my vet. So when someone explains it to me in simple terms it gives me more confidence to speak to the vet.
I do have a question for you, though. When you said, “I am more than happy to look at Hector’s blood tests if you want, but I am hoping your vets would have picked up on this already as hector has been poorly for some time???”, are you talking about clotting issues? Is there something you can tell about clotting from his bloodwork?
I am happy to share any and all lab results from Hector’s history. It’s just that I have a whole lot so I don’t know which things to share.
Glad you checked up on Vick. We really don’t think about him much anymore. It’s useless energy getting mad at the jerk. What’s positive about the situation is that public case drew attention to fighting dogs as individuals and it was the first time with such a large fight bust that they were given a chance instead of automatically put down. I won’t bombard you with news stories, but this one is good and Hector is in it.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1757336290/

[Clara]

I should also mention that last Monday 7/28 his PCV was 23%. We’re not sure if it plummeted as a result of his “Weeklong GI upset” or if he really is crashing.
He stayed in the low 30’s for months. I know that’s still not exactly normal, but I would have been happy if he stayed in that range.

[Vally]

Hi Clara, Hector is a gorgeous boy. I just want to add my encouragement to contact Dr Dodds too, especially with this complicated combination. She’s a wonderful lady and I’m always impressed by everybody’s comments, not only about her knowledge, but her compassion.

I’m not sure if it’s appropriate, but has thyroxine been mentioned? That has often kick started the better production of red blood, but again, I know nothing about the tick disease.

Clara, truly everyone here is fabulous and we all hold each others’ hands though thick and thin. We all just love our mutts (and cats).

Vally & Bingo (diag Nov 2011 in remission)

[Clara]

That’s one thing I wanted to discuss with Dr. Dodds. As wonderful as my current vets are, I’m not sure they understand the hows or whys of supplementing with thyroid hormones for Hector’s condition (nor do I). I myself have autoimmune thyroid disease so I very much understand how much the thyroid affects everything, but I don’t really have much info about how it helps IMHA dogs.

[Tamara]

Clara, Dr. Dodds recommends supplementing dogs with IMHA with thyroid hormone for a couple of reasons; thyroid hormone will stimulate the bone marrow, and the meds our dogs are on suppress thyroid function. My first vet (I’ve changed vets since Ashki’s diagnosis and I’m SO glad I did) wouldn’t go for it so I had Ashki’s thyroid tested at Dr. Dodds’ lab and he came back very hypothyroid. Once we added the soloxine Ashki had an big uptick in reticulocytes, but then they fell again because of some other untreated issues. I finally feel like we’re getting to the point of addressing all his issues and feel hopeful with this new vet. I am feeling more and more strongly that many of our dogs have, in addition to IMHA, anemia of inflammation. I think that we need to do all we can to reduce inflammation. I’ve changed Ashki’s diet to no grains and no starchy vegetables and have added some supplements with the help of a holistic vet to also reduce inflammation. I had Ashki test for food sensitivities through Dr. Dodds’ lab to make sure I wasn’t feeding him anything that would add inflammation. Ashki’s poops were consistently mucousy and the new vet added a therapeutic dose of probiotics and his poops are now normal — and we had a very big jump in PCV this last week!! What Patrice was writing about with regard to iron metabolism — this is part of anemia of inflammation, and I believe was a big part of Ashki’s struggle to get better. You are doing such a great job, continuing to dig and read and look for answers. You know Hector better than anyone. Trust your instincts; if you think there’s something more going on, I’m betting on you. That’s why I switched vets — the first one was not taking my concerns seriously about Ashki’s low regenerative response. I’m so glad I found a specialist who is taking my concerns seriously and talking with me about them.
sending you hugs —
tamara and ashki xoxoxox

[Tamara]

ps I always have to read what Patrice and Sheena send me about a dozen times before I fully get it — I think we ‘re so fried from dealing with this disease! Hang in there and let us know how we can help. xoxo

[Patrice]

Clara,
If I saw the CBC and chem screens I could tell you for sure exactly what transpired. But yes, the immune system can be triggered by the tick disease and attack its own red blood cells. IMHA. Some of the tick diseases are a common trigger. As I said, Lyme is not one of those but never-the-less has its own serious implications.

The first experience some veterinarians had with the tick disease Ehrlichiosis were with military German Shepherds returning from Viet Nam with a disease they called canine hemorrhagic fever. These dogs were very sick. They had serious autoimmune hemolytic anemia combined with thrombocytopenia, a severe shortage of platelets. This is the most dangerous condition. A dog that does not have enough platelets cannot control internal bleeding via clotting. This is extremely serious and can lead to a condition called DIC disseminated intravascular coagulation. Without intervention a dog can succumb to this condition.

A tick disease can even trigger the immune system to begin attacking the precursor cells in the bone marrow so that the dog stops making red blood cells or platelets or even white blood cells. This is a particularly difficult condition to treat.

So at some point Hector’s immune system was challenged by the Babesiosis and reacted by attempting to destroy the tick disease by destroying the red blood cells. IMHA. The question is were there co-infections with other tick diseases? Did they test for them?

It’s important to think of AIHA and IMHA as complex conditions that can have more than one trigger. For instance a pure bred dog from a good line that has no health issues and is exposed to Babesiosis may be able to throw it off with mild symptoms. An older dog that has been ill for a while and is stressed from constant pain will likely not be successful in fighting it off.

All kinds of things impact how our dog’s immune system functions. The big ticket items for dogs are inherited genetics, general health, age, diet, stress, hormones (sex), viruses, bacteria, thyroid health and vaccinations. Dogs can also be affected by things like bee stings, snake or spider bites. They can also eat inappropriate things that can lead to hemolytic anemia or cause serious allergic reactions. Exposure to several of these at one time can set off an autoimmune attack, not only on RBC but on tissues and organs. We can probably never know all the triggers that led our dog to develop IMHA.

Certain things that might challenge the immune system at this point in Hector may weaken it and that might lead to a relapse of Babesiosis. Sometimes with these dogs you just have to take more care with them.

In humans it is well known that older folks who have a major accident like a fall or other health issue tend to develop painful shingles. The immune system that was protecting them all their life from their childhood chicken pox virus (living in the roots of the spinal cord nerves) let down it’s guard and shingles erupted.
my best
patrice

[admin]

Hi Clara
You & Tamara are fighting a similar battle in that their PCVs just won’t go up – it’s very frustrating for both of you. Hypothyroidism is definitely a cause of AIHA/IMHA & Dr Dodds protocol includes soloxine (even if that wasn’t the original trigger) because that useful thyroid hormone encourages red cell production. Have a look at these when you can:
http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife-diagnostics/veterinary-thyroid-testing.html
http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife-diagnostics/t4-ft4-ratio-thyroid.html
and our site information
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/hypothyroidism/
I also have a paper from Dr Dodds which I can’t find a link for & will e-mail it to you privately.

Mary was rightly concerned about the clotting risks because many dogs & cats succumb to blood clots with this disease. You can read about it in our glossary of AIHA terms :
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/abnormal-clotting/
I am more than happy to look at Hector’s blood tests if you want, but I am hoping your vets would have picked up on this already as hector has been poorly for some time???

Sorry to bombard you with loads of links – basically it gives you more information & possibilities with Hector’s treatment.

I made the mistake of looking up that despicable NFL man you mentioned – my husband’s language was ripe when I showed him. What a complete scumbag. We had quite a few fighting dogs come into a dog rescue home I was involved with in the UK & this sort of behaviour is beyond my comprehension. They were often the hardest to re-home for obvious reasons & some became permanent residents (it was a never destroy a healthy dog policy home). Clara – you are a star.

Keep us posted – anything else we can help with, just ask.
Sheena, Worzel Ollie xxxx

[Clara]

Patrice,
I appreciate the reminder about this being a complex condition with more than one trigger. I had a similar conversation with someone the other day because I was oversimplifying and trying to figure out which thing triggered the immune attack. But you (and she) were right. It could be several things and I will never really know the “perfect storm” that is taking Hector down.
Sheena,
I don’t mind links. I like all the information. And I have been trying to figure out how to bring up and explain the thyroid connection with my vet. So when someone explains it to me in simple terms it gives me more confidence to speak to the vet.
I do have a question for you, though. When you said, “I am more than happy to look at Hector’s blood tests if you want, but I am hoping your vets would have picked up on this already as hector has been poorly for some time???”, are you talking about clotting issues? Is there something you can tell about clotting from his bloodwork?
I am happy to share any and all lab results from Hector’s history. It’s just that I have a whole lot so I don’t know which things to share.
Glad you checked up on Vick. We really don’t think about him much anymore. It’s useless energy getting mad at the jerk. What’s positive about the situation is that public case drew attention to fighting dogs as individuals and it was the first time with such a large fight bust that they were given a chance instead of automatically put down. I won’t bombard you with news stories, but this one is good and Hector is in it.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1757336290/