And introduction to Casy

[AmyE]

Coal’s episode started at 4 months she was on meds for 6 months and that is a very short time in the relative scheme of things with this disease.
Slow and steady wins the race here. If you go back and look at my thread “4mo pup IMHA” you will see that her reduction was very slow. Very safe and done over a long period of time. This is something your vet should know. There is no way this dog should have been weaned already. OF COURSE she is back to an RBC of 19. She shouldn’t have even started weaning for weeks and her RBC should have been stable and usually over 40 at least for a few weeks before a reduction.
Please Vally or anyone else chime in here if I am incorrect. But for all the reading research and my own experience with Coal I feel something here is amiss with this poor pups situation.

[AlnCasy]

I am just as guilty as the vet. Tho, I have never had to deal with this with any other dog. I just did not know enough. Squarely the fault lies with me. I will be picking her up today around 4. will see then.

[AmyE]

The fault absolutely does NOT lie with you! How would you know any of this? We were all in your shoes at one point and time and we trusted our vets to know their job just as you did. You did nothing wrong here. Your vet however should have done more research and educated himself on IMHA and how to handle it. Please know that I am certainly not pointing a finger at you. As for my harsh reaction it was more out of concern for you and your pup than anything. We all want the best for our animals and we expect out vet to be knowledgeable about how to care for our beloved pets and their illnesses. I hope Casy is better today when you go to get her and I hope you are able to convince your vet that you will be slowing down her medication reduction in the future. Also do not hesitate to school your vet on this situation. Print out and hand over as much info as you can on IMHA and make it clear that you expect them to read it and get on board with the appropriate medication protocol for this disease.
Lots of love and hugs to you and Casy!
xoxo
Amy & Coal

[AlnCasy]

Amy,

Thank you. I did not find your statements to be accusatory at all.

When I adopt or rescue I take full responsibility for the care of that life for life. When I do adopt out I am extremely picky as well.

I am power reading and, will have to re read all of this again as it was another sleepless night.

I uploaded a great pic of my lil girl, I hope it makes it. when you see this face …..

[Sheena]

Hi Al & Casy

Thank you for your sweet message about my much missed but never forgotten Ollie – I know you’ll understand why I haven’t been around for a while.

Don’t you DARE beat yourself up about this. If I had a $ or a £ for every time this happened (weaning too fast usually equals relapse) I would be very rich! Listen – this is no big deal, but it is a hiccup you could have done without. As Amy says, this is in no way your fault. The complete ignorance & inexperience amongst vets is both sad & worrying. That is one of many reasons as to why we are here, trying to help. This disease is a real evil thing – but we know how to beat it with a big stick! Please remember most dogs come through this and make a complete recovery IF you follow the protocols – I cannot stress that more strongly.

Vally & Linda went through relapses with their babies because of fast pred weaning -it’s probably because vets use it for other less serious illnesses such as skin complaints, in which case reductions can be done quicker. But NOT with AIHA/IMHA

So, from now on, I know you will stick to the tried & trusted protocol of full dose prednisone plus second immunosuppressant. Only taper the pred to start with – never reduce 2 drugs at the same time -then when she’s off the pred, reduce the Atopica.

The pred must only be reduced like this:
25-33% maximum every 2-3weeks minimum, only after reaching a PCV OF 38 or above.
See prednisone dose reduction in AIHA TERMS which I can’t link you to for some reason.

I am so sorry if I repeat what Vally has already told you ( she IS AWESOME ) but it’s important to “follow the rules” . Please check with us on how to safely reduce from now – we are always delighted to help!

Also please avoid the following groups of antibiotics:

Penicillins ( these drugs can “mark” red cells for destruction by affecting the cell membrane but are the least harmful of the 3)
Cephalosporines ( to be used if absolutely necessary e.g. staph infections)
Sulfa antibiotucs (absolute no-no)

Alternative antibiotics such as doxycycline & minocycline are known to be safe. Just ask if you are in doubt about any drug.

For GI infections, Tylan is safe & incredible. You can read about it in the medication resources:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/medication-resources/#mg

I can personally vouch that it was miraculous for Worzel.

Sending loads of get well wishes to Casy – again, forgive me not being here for you, but you are in the best hands possible with Vally & Amy

Love Sheena & Worzel ( in remission for 3 years from bone marrow failure) who is snoring his head off beside me on the bed!
Xxxxxxx

[Sheena]

Forgot to say we live in France – and to ask if Casy is on anti-clotting meds & tummy protector (s)
Sheena xxxx

[AlnCasy]

Thank you Sheena,

I am not beating myself up over this. I did however learn a lesson that will not soon be forgotten.

Casy is home with me. We opted to leave the IV in for a few days. She is not a ” chewer” so I have no worries about that.

She is not on any tummy meds or anti-clotting . The Doc doesn’t think she needs either. For the tummy I let her have a little yogurt and mozzarella. she loves cheese. ( Perhaps she is french)

For now, we are going back to the original med protocol and will stick with that until her next blood work up. After those results we are going to stay on the meds and repeat the check ups.

When it comes time to start decreasing the meds I will be looking for advice.

She is happy in her little bed for now. Fever is all but gone.

[Vally]

Al, I’m so sorry. What a buggar. Absolutely don’t beat yourself up about this. Bingo was under a specialist, whom I love. Bingo is here today because he convinced me to give Bingo 3 more days to let the meds work, and in that time, there was a tiny improvement. I had given up hope. However, the specialist also advised reductions of 50% and that was fine until Bingo relapsed. So, as Sheena said, I think it is the normal protocol to reduce fairly quickly. We’ve learned here that relapses are just to easy when they are reduced in that way. That’s why we’re all a bit nuts about it. It just happens too often and it’s heartbreaking.

I’m glad she’s home, she’ll be more comfortable.

Can you repeat what meds she’s on again now? I’m worried she’s not on tummy protection as that’s something else we see a lot. Predisone is incredibly harsh at high doses on their tummies. Ulcers happen. They did with Bingo.

Can you get a copy of blood tests so someone can check if aspirin is needed. A blood smear is the best so if there are any abnormal cells they can be seen. We’ve just lost a dog to a clot. Please triple triple check. Clots are actually the biggest killers here. Please read this
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/abnormal-clotting/

You knew something was wrong and reacted. You’re amazing, don’t doubt it !!! That’s an order.

Vally & Relapsee too !!!
xxx

[AmyE]

Coal’s episode started at 4 months she was on meds for 6 months and that is a very short time in the relative scheme of things with this disease.
Slow and steady wins the race here. If you go back and look at my thread “4mo pup IMHA” you will see that her reduction was very slow. Very safe and done over a long period of time. This is something your vet should know. There is no way this dog should have been weaned already. OF COURSE she is back to an RBC of 19. She shouldn’t have even started weaning for weeks and her RBC should have been stable and usually over 40 at least for a few weeks before a reduction.
Please Vally or anyone else chime in here if I am incorrect. But for all the reading research and my own experience with Coal I feel something here is amiss with this poor pups situation.

[AlnCasy]

I am just as guilty as the vet. Tho, I have never had to deal with this with any other dog. I just did not know enough. Squarely the fault lies with me. I will be picking her up today around 4. will see then.

[AmyE]

The fault absolutely does NOT lie with you! How would you know any of this? We were all in your shoes at one point and time and we trusted our vets to know their job just as you did. You did nothing wrong here. Your vet however should have done more research and educated himself on IMHA and how to handle it. Please know that I am certainly not pointing a finger at you. As for my harsh reaction it was more out of concern for you and your pup than anything. We all want the best for our animals and we expect out vet to be knowledgeable about how to care for our beloved pets and their illnesses. I hope Casy is better today when you go to get her and I hope you are able to convince your vet that you will be slowing down her medication reduction in the future. Also do not hesitate to school your vet on this situation. Print out and hand over as much info as you can on IMHA and make it clear that you expect them to read it and get on board with the appropriate medication protocol for this disease.
Lots of love and hugs to you and Casy!
xoxo
Amy & Coal

[AlnCasy]

Amy,

Thank you. I did not find your statements to be accusatory at all.

When I adopt or rescue I take full responsibility for the care of that life for life. When I do adopt out I am extremely picky as well.

I am power reading and, will have to re read all of this again as it was another sleepless night.

I uploaded a great pic of my lil girl, I hope it makes it. when you see this face …..

[Sheena]

Hi Al & Casy

Thank you for your sweet message about my much missed but never forgotten Ollie – I know you’ll understand why I haven’t been around for a while.

Don’t you DARE beat yourself up about this. If I had a $ or a £ for every time this happened (weaning too fast usually equals relapse) I would be very rich! Listen – this is no big deal, but it is a hiccup you could have done without. As Amy says, this is in no way your fault. The complete ignorance & inexperience amongst vets is both sad & worrying. That is one of many reasons as to why we are here, trying to help. This disease is a real evil thing – but we know how to beat it with a big stick! Please remember most dogs come through this and make a complete recovery IF you follow the protocols – I cannot stress that more strongly.

Vally & Linda went through relapses with their babies because of fast pred weaning -it’s probably because vets use it for other less serious illnesses such as skin complaints, in which case reductions can be done quicker. But NOT with AIHA/IMHA

So, from now on, I know you will stick to the tried & trusted protocol of full dose prednisone plus second immunosuppressant. Only taper the pred to start with – never reduce 2 drugs at the same time -then when she’s off the pred, reduce the Atopica.

The pred must only be reduced like this:
25-33% maximum every 2-3weeks minimum, only after reaching a PCV OF 38 or above.
See prednisone dose reduction in AIHA TERMS which I can’t link you to for some reason.

I am so sorry if I repeat what Vally has already told you ( she IS AWESOME ) but it’s important to “follow the rules” . Please check with us on how to safely reduce from now – we are always delighted to help!

Also please avoid the following groups of antibiotics:

Penicillins ( these drugs can “mark” red cells for destruction by affecting the cell membrane but are the least harmful of the 3)
Cephalosporines ( to be used if absolutely necessary e.g. staph infections)
Sulfa antibiotucs (absolute no-no)

Alternative antibiotics such as doxycycline & minocycline are known to be safe. Just ask if you are in doubt about any drug.

For GI infections, Tylan is safe & incredible. You can read about it in the medication resources:
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/medication-resources/#mg

I can personally vouch that it was miraculous for Worzel.

Sending loads of get well wishes to Casy – again, forgive me not being here for you, but you are in the best hands possible with Vally & Amy

Love Sheena & Worzel ( in remission for 3 years from bone marrow failure) who is snoring his head off beside me on the bed!
Xxxxxxx

[Sheena]

Forgot to say we live in France – and to ask if Casy is on anti-clotting meds & tummy protector (s)
Sheena xxxx

[AlnCasy]

Thank you Sheena,

I am not beating myself up over this. I did however learn a lesson that will not soon be forgotten.

Casy is home with me. We opted to leave the IV in for a few days. She is not a ” chewer” so I have no worries about that.

She is not on any tummy meds or anti-clotting . The Doc doesn’t think she needs either. For the tummy I let her have a little yogurt and mozzarella. she loves cheese. ( Perhaps she is french)

For now, we are going back to the original med protocol and will stick with that until her next blood work up. After those results we are going to stay on the meds and repeat the check ups.

When it comes time to start decreasing the meds I will be looking for advice.

She is happy in her little bed for now. Fever is all but gone.

[Vally]

Al, I’m so sorry. What a buggar. Absolutely don’t beat yourself up about this. Bingo was under a specialist, whom I love. Bingo is here today because he convinced me to give Bingo 3 more days to let the meds work, and in that time, there was a tiny improvement. I had given up hope. However, the specialist also advised reductions of 50% and that was fine until Bingo relapsed. So, as Sheena said, I think it is the normal protocol to reduce fairly quickly. We’ve learned here that relapses are just to easy when they are reduced in that way. That’s why we’re all a bit nuts about it. It just happens too often and it’s heartbreaking.

I’m glad she’s home, she’ll be more comfortable.

Can you repeat what meds she’s on again now? I’m worried she’s not on tummy protection as that’s something else we see a lot. Predisone is incredibly harsh at high doses on their tummies. Ulcers happen. They did with Bingo.

Can you get a copy of blood tests so someone can check if aspirin is needed. A blood smear is the best so if there are any abnormal cells they can be seen. We’ve just lost a dog to a clot. Please triple triple check. Clots are actually the biggest killers here. Please read this
https://www.secondchanceaihadogs.com/AIHA_Terms/abnormal-clotting/

You knew something was wrong and reacted. You’re amazing, don’t doubt it !!! That’s an order.

Vally & Relapsee too !!!
xxx